JAIME: Welcome to Outgrowth: A Slice of Pro Beauty with your hosts Jaime Schrabeck. 

ASHLEY: And Ashley Gregory Hackett. I’m not sure if you can tell, but we are actually in the same room.

JAIME: I can’t believe it.

ASHLEY: We have pulled off 85 episodes of this podcast remotely, and now we are together in Orlando preparing to teach this weekend, and soak up every part of the beauty industry. But we’re in the same room, isn’t this nuts? 

JAIME: This is nuts. Here we are in October 2021. We have not seen each other in person since March of 2020. 

ASHLEY: And if you go way back and listen to our Live in New York episode, that was the last time that we, well, the first time and the last time that we recorded together in person. So it’s going to be a little different. It probably sounds a little bit different. We’re recording this in the hotel, but there’s a lot to cover today about a topic that I know is very near and dear to both of us and something that we have covered almost ad nauseum at this point on this podcast, but important things happening that I think are just a good idea to go over.

JAIME: We’ve talked about this subject since the very beginning, the overall subject being the regulation of our industry and attempts to deregulate our industry. And now we can finally talk with some authority about what’s happened in California because the deadline has passed for the governor to sign bills and the one we were waiting for was the all-important SB 803. 

ASHLEY: It’s really interesting to watch the rest of the industry wake up and take note of this bill and the fact that it’s passed. And it’s the same thing we’ve talked about in previous episodes not even necessarily dealing with SB 803, but just the legislative process of who drafts these bills, and don’t they know anything about the beauty industry, and why is this happening to us? You can see it happen in real time. 

JAIME: I wish that were mandatory to listen to those episodes because I think a lot of the frustration would go away if people were more understanding that this is not something that just happens overnight. We’ve been talking about it for a long time, We’ve been anticipating this happening because this is part of a process that we’ve said before is the sunset review process. People are going to get tired of hearing those words, but it’s important because the boards that we have in our states, these regulatory agencies only exist because the legislatures authorize them.

ASHLEY: Right, and in California and in other states, there’s a process by which they determine is this still needed because it takes a line item in the state’s budget to run this regulatory body every year, or to give it the attention it needs, or to administer to the licensees. And so the fact that the board exists in California is due to this sunset review process. And this is a bill that’s been in the works since 2017, but as we start to see more beauty professionals take note of it, and maybe where they’re getting their news from, you can see the reactions run the gamut. So let’s talk a little bit about what exactly happened when this bill got signed.

JAIME: The bill didn’t change from the moment that it left the Senate and then went to the governor’s desk. So we knew it was just a matter of whether or not the governor signed it.

ASHLEY: Right.

JAIME: And it did not get signed right away. There’s a timeline, and during that timeline, the governor being a politician is going to make events out of signings and signings around major issues like homelessness, housing, healthcare, whatever it might be. If there are bills that fit into that topic, then an event’s going to be scheduled. The press will be there and the governor will announce the signing of this series of bills around that particular topic. We knew our bill wasn’t that important. It’s the beauty industry. It’s just not that important. So we were expecting to see these later announcements each day. Oh, and by the way, the governor signed these other bills during the day. So we kept waiting day after day after day, and the deadline was October 10th. So if the bill did not get signed by October 10th, then we’d be in trouble. 

ASHLEY: Right. It would’ve just been a pocket veto. 

. 

JAIME: Yes, yes, it wouldn’t be where he would come out and blatantly say, I refuse to sign this bill and this is why with an explanation of the veto. It would have just died from having not been signed. Here’s the point that those who were arguing against SB 803 don’t understand and that is if the bill had not been signed, there would be no board, no licenses, no rules whatsoever. 

ASHLEY: That’s so important to take note of because we’re seeing even today, as we were at dinner, we saw there was another voice throwing their hat into the ring over the fact that this bill was signed, and how bad it is for certain parts of the industry, and that’s up for discussion and debate. Unfortunately, that time for debate to have any kind of impact on the bill itself has passed because the bill has passed and it’s been signed. I think it’s a net positive just based on what it’s done for estheticians in California and the expansion of scope, based on the fact that the board continues to exist, based on the fact that this bill was signed. And so I think when you are all or nothing, you lose. This is not a process by which you get everything you want every time. And so I think the pushback that you and I have received over this bill and our discussion of it is that we’re being political because we’re talking about it and we’re being political because we have taken a stand on what side of this bill we’re on, at least on some parts of it. So I guess what’s your response to being told that you’re being political when advocacy is actually what you do for our industry?

JAIME: Anything having to do with the government by virtue of that is going to be political. If the knock is that it’s partisan, that’s a different conversation, but these bills are nonpartisan. These agency bills don’t tend to fall along the lines of, oh, this is something that Democrats want, and/or this is something that Republicans want. That’s not what it’s about and you can see that in the vote totals. As the bill moves through each committee, there are hearings. There are votes and it moves through each house, the Assembly and the Senate. You have these votes being taken and if it truly were political, meaning partisan, which I don’t equate those two things. 

ASHLEY: Right.

JAIME: A lot of people do because they don’t understand, but if it were truly partisan, then you would see every party take their sides.

ASHLEY: Right.

JAIME: Go to their corners and vote. 

ASHLEY: Right. 

JAIME: And that’s not what happened. 

ASHLEY: No, it isn’t.

JAIME: So if someone were to complain that this is political, it’s the process and you have had every opportunity to participate in the process. We’ve tried, we begged, we’ve encouraged everyone to pay attention and to voice their opinion and guess what? The time for that has passed in terms of this particular bill, and you can bitch, and gripe, and whatever you want to do about this, but it’s a done deal. It’s been signed and it will go into effect January 1.

ASHLEY: I don’t want to say I told you so, because I think that seems insensitive. I’ve heard specifically from recent students who are upset that they think this bill devalues their 1600-hour education. I’m of the mindset that you’re one of the last of the 1600 hoursers and you’ve had that much more time. So when you hit the ground running in an ideal world, if school had prepared you for this industry the way we hope it has, that you’ll have that much more of a leg up. It’s unfortunate that there are people out there who have had to pay more to get what will amount to the same education just in the eyes of having a license or not. But I think it’s difficult to say that everything that happened in this bill is positive or negative. It’s going to affect every different member of our industry differently. But if you look at the information, the summary that was put out by the BBC in California, all of the different things that are affected, plus the fact that this will open up and remove a couple of the barriers to entry so that if you’re in a position where you’re hiring beauty professionals, hopefully this will increase your applicant pool. But also it just removes that huge barrier of the practical exam and the fact that there were only two facilities in the entire state of California in order to take these practical exams. And now you’re able to take the written, and get your license, and not have to jump through that additional hoop.

JAIME: If you want to know how big a barrier that was, you only need to go to the DCA’s website, and this is for the state of California only, but to get a sense of what are the pass and fail rates for the different license types. And the DCA has recently created this database that’s amazing because you can type in what you want to look for and to see, for example, that barbers fail the written exam at a rate of 41%.

ASHLEY: What? 

JAIME: Yep. 

ASHLEY: Wow, and then do we know what the like commensurate rate of passing the practical is? 

JAIME: I could pull that up, as can anyone else. But the thing to note on that is that more recently, the NIC changed the practical exam in July, and when that change happened, the number of individuals who’ve been failing their tests has increased dramatically. So we’ve not had a board meeting that really captures all this new data yet, but the last six months of the practical exam in California is going to look really ugly and I don’t think anyone’s going to miss it when it’s gone.

ASHLEY: Yeah. 

JAIME: It’s a headache.

ASHLEY: It is a headache. If you’ve listened to this podcast, none of this is a surprise to you. This is not a ton of new information, but I come from a state where there is no practical exam. It is 100% a written, multiple-choice computerized test. 

JAIME: And you don’t come from a small state. You come from a very large state. So, you know we’re not talking about Vermont. We’re talking about Illinois.

ASHLEY: Yeah, and I don’t feel that I’m any less skilled or that I have had any less education because some proctor hasn’t watched me sanitize a surface. That’s why I think it really confuses me why there’s so much pushback on the fact that the practical exam is this like boundary that’s keeping all these dangerous beauty professionals off the streets, right? Because if you’re going to school, what is it that you’re learning or not learning that crosses the Rubicon from dangerous to safe that the practical exam is like the last line of defense is laughable to me. Because those of you who have gone through it know, and we’ve had Insiders tell us about their experiences, people who have failed the exam because they didn’t sanitize their power strip. Like I find it to really not relate at all to what it is we do in the salon every day. And I don’t know if it’s a matter of, well, I had to do it, so you should too. Or if people really believe that the practical exam is somehow keeping the public safe that a written exam wouldn’t catch either. If you don’t know sanitation and disinfection, you’re not going to know it in a choreographed dance, just as much as you’re not going to know it when it comes to the multiple-choice question. I mean, is that such a huge leap to make?

JAIME: Not only is it not a huge leap, but what really needs to happen is that needs to be done in the salon setting, period. I mean, that’s, to me, the point of licensure is not that you have all this fabulous training or you’ve demonstrated superior skills because we know that’s not the case. This is minimum competency. It’s can you get through this without seriously injuring someone. That’s what the state cares about. So this idea, somehow that licensure is, you know, a pat on the back for a job well done. No, it’s a push out the door from the beauty schools, like you’re on your own now. We hope you do get employed because we’d like to be able to report that to the federal government. And then beyond that, what I think licensure is is accountability to the state. It’s a declaration. I am part of this industry. I should know better. Now, I need to do better. Now, I need to do what it is that the state requires of me for every client, no matter how expensive it is, no matter how inconvenient, no matter if the next client’s waiting. I still have to wash my hands. I still need to use clean tools. I can’t reuse the same towels, whatever it is. To me, that’s what licensure is about is the accountability to the standards that each state sets, and each state has its own set of standards. I mean, overall, there’s some things that are similar. I don’t think that you can get away with not washing your hands, or using a hand sanitizer, but those are the things that drive people crazy. And then that conversation about, well, shouldn’t we have a national license? It’s like we can’t even agree what’s important. And yet you want, you know, where’s this going to come from? Because my fear is is that if we all sit back and say, well, there should be some sort of national license, whose standard is going to take precedence?

ASHLEY: Well, and we talked about a universal license in a previous episode. It sounds like a good idea on paper, but then when it comes to instituting it practically, you see how many people think that a thousand hours is enough to become a cosmetologist versus those who have spent the time and the money to get their 1600-hour education and you can’t get those parties to agree. So how would you ever get parties across state lines? There’s a lot of work to be done and I think there’s an area there with a lot of potential. But I love what you said about a standard because to me a license is almost like an affidavit. It’s basically saying I’ve been informed of the standard. I promise to uphold it and if I don’t, you take this away from me. I don’t know. It’s not this weird rite of passage or that the government has said that you’re so great at what you do. It’s basically, you’ve, you’ve proven you’re not going to hurt somebody. We’ve done what we need to do. We release our liability and go with God, like enjoy. So why, oh, Jaime.

JAIME: Let’s get political. Let’s talk about the pressure on states to deregulate, but what’s laughable about that is that pressure comes from groups from the right, libertarian-minded groups. And where do we find the highest number of hours? In red states. Okay, explain that to me. Why is it that it’s so prohibitive, the barrier to entry is so high in a place like Iowa or Nebraska? I don’t get it. Red states. 

ASHLEY: Well, we’ve talked again and I hate to keep referring back to previous episodes, but this is a topic we have covered from every possible angle, six ways from Sunday. But as this bill has moved through the process, you can kind of track exactly how it was being received at any point in time by just going through and like looking at this time capsule of our past episodes on SB 803, because we’ve talked about every different version of this bill. 

JAIME: Yes.

ASHLEY: We’ve talked about how it’s being received by different parts of the industry. We’ve talked about what the opposition actually opposed.

JAIME: Or what they thought they were opposing. 

ASHLEY: Right, right, right, and I mean, you can tell I’m smiling right now because it was misguided at best, malicious at worst. But now we’re starting to see some other bigger names in the industry take notice of this bill and put out some really click baity headlines that California has completely eliminated the licensure exam. Youl know that’s not true, but the more, you know, eyeballs and clicks on your site, the more Google ads revenue you make, I guess.

JAIME: Where this bill started was with the deregulation of hair. That’s where we started. We knew that was not going to be where we ended up. 

ASHLEY: And so rightly so, that the hair part of our industry, their hair was literally on fire about it because if someone said I’m going to completely deregulate nails in the state of California, I would be very angry about that and want to do something about it. And you have these knee-jerk reactions and fundraising campaigns that go along with that. If there’s a GoFund me attached, I mean, we’ve covered that in our Consider the Source episode, but.

JAIME: Or here’s the email address of the primary consultant, you know, please blast her. That’s not how this gets done. And we have talked about our approach to these things. Our approach has always been, let’s find out what we’re talking about before we start talking, before we start engaging. And when we do engage, do it respectfully. Do it in a way that makes people want to work with you, as opposed to creating a situation where they’re ditching your phone calls, and not replying to your emails, and dreading your involvement because you’re a nightmare to work with.

ASHLEY: Yeah, you’re creating enemies and nobody wants to work with their enemies to come to an understanding or a common ground. It’s, when it’s adversarial like that, again, it becomes all or nothing. And if you come into these types of conversations, all or nothing, you will lose. Because if even if you make one concession, that’s considered a loss in your eyes if you’re part of that all or nothing, black or white, you only get a notch in the w column if you get every part of what it is that you want from the bill, and that’s just not how the legislative process works. And so, the bill is increasing the number of board members, which is exciting.

JAIME: Yes, it is because now each license type will have a representative on the board, but then that’s balanced by the fact that the board has to be overwhelmingly public in majority. So we are going from nine members to 13 so that there are six licensees and seven public members. 

ASHLEY: Okay. 

JAIME: That’s how we get to 13. 

ASHLEY: It extends the sunset date to 2027. 

JAIME: And again, with the sunset date, because every time an agency goes through this review process, they don’t say, okay, this is so fabulous, we never want to see you again. You could exist until the end of time. No, this is setting a deadline for this next review process, because they understand that within a certain number of years, it’s enough time to have gone by to create more issues that need to be addressed, to reevaluate. And you need to think of this as a performance review. It’d be like if your job was renewed on a particular basis of years, that, that’s how it is. And the number could have varied, but that’s as far out as it is, is a good sign. And I’m going to make this point because there are other boards that went through their sunset review process and got a year.

ASHLEY: Wow. 

JAIME: That tells me and should tell everyone it’s because you’re on your way out. The board is done. And the example of that would be the massage therapy situation here in California. Massage therapists are going to get their own board as part of the government. And the organization now that’s been sort of playing that role will be no longer. 

ASHLEY: Interesting.

JAIME: Yes, you know you’re in trouble if you only get a short leash. 

ASHLEY: So we’ve talked about the increase in scope for esthetics, the tinting and perming of eyelashes and brows, which is a topic that is a hot one just based on the fact that there’s a product question involved in that. 

JAIME: And what they didn’t mention in this list to that refers to estheticians is that the scope of work has been expanded to include the entire body and not just body parts. 

ASHLEY: Right, I mean, good for them. It’s well overdue. 

JAIME: Yes.

ASHLEY: The hairstylist license at a 600-hour program. And I think some of the knee-jerk reaction to this has been that this is going to take effect January 1st and that immediately, if you’re at 600 hours in your cosmetology program, you can just ride off into the sunset with your 600-hour license. This is a brand new program and a brand new license type. There’s going to, it’s going to take time to create the infrastructure to administer this. So while it is law now, or will take effect January 1, there’s still a little bit of work to be done in order to, well, a lot of work to be done.

JAIME: We, yeah, a lot of work and we say that because the way it’s written now, when we’ve talked about this previously it’s hair, it’s the cutting, the styling, shampooing, that sort of thing. It’s not chemical services.

ASHLEY: Right. 

JAIME: And we know that likely needs to change in order for this to be viable. And it also allows, and we mentioned this before, again, in a previous episode. So just to reinforce that we knew what we were talking about, and I will say, we told you so. That it does include language that makes it sound like these people would be able to do facials, which is not something that is clear. And I will say this, having worked with the author on this, we know that they don’t think that’s their best work. In other words, that the language that they pulled together to get this through the process, they didn’t have time to make it perfect. And we get that, but that’s why we expect there to be some legislation in this coming cycle that will clean that up. 

ASHLEY: Okay. Yeah, that definitely requires a second look. The out-of-state licensure requirement of three years for an endorsement applicant. So this is something I personally did. 

JAIME: You had to wait, Ashley. How do you get that time back? I mean. 

ASHLEY: I didn’t actually have to wait, but when I did it, it was, I think, five years.

JAIME: It’s that you have to be active like three of the last five and you can’t have any disciplinary actions on your thing. And now, now it’s just that you have to be licensed. So you could get your license on one day and immediately apply to get a California license. I’ll be very curious to see how many people get a California license, just to say they have one. And they may do that. The issue I will take with that, however, is that it’s going to skew our numbers in terms of how many licenses have been issued, but it doesn’t necessarily reflect how many licensees are actively working in the state.

ASHLEY: Yeah, I think it was just part of the reciprocity agreement between California and Illinois that it was a little bit higher, but it was a while ago. I don’t remember the details offhand. I got a lot of stuff in my head, Jaime.

JAIME: I get it. 

ASHLEY: So a little bit about the apprenticeship applicants. 

JAIME: Oh my gosh. That just needs to go away. All It’s if, okay, 

ASHLEY: I’m like rubbing my head about it.

JAIME: Okay, okay, how about this? How about a 25% pass for apprentices?

ASHLEY: The apprentice program, it seems like no matter what state you’re in, it’s just a one-way ticket to exploitation. And it’s unfortunate because I think the best potential for a real world salon education is through apprenticeship. But if you think about, you know, there’s a TikTok influencer, Theresa Van Dam, who talks about, she acts out these conversations she had with a former salon owner where she’s like, am I ready to go on the floor? I’m ready to start taking clients. I know I’m ready. Oh, no, no, no, who’s going to fold my towels? And it’s like this big joke, and unfortunately it was her experience, and I know it’s an experience shared by a lot of beauty professionals out there. I think regulation of the apprenticeship idea is amazing, but who’s checking up on that realistically? 

JAIME: Right, it’s another one of those shared responsibilities where our board does not have sole oversight. They share that responsibility with yet a different organization, the division of apprenticeship standards. 

ASHLEY: What?

JAIME: Yeah, it’s not even the BPPE, which is the organization, the agency that oversees the schools. So there are a lot of different players, different agencies, and they don’t necessarily talk to each other all the time, and they don’t bring their concerns or bring themselves to our board meetings unless it’s on the agenda. And I actually think they should have to be there and to explain themselves because those apprenticeship programs, the record is so abysmal, I would yank their authority. I would not allow them to enroll one more student based on that.

ASHLEY: Well, let’s put a pin in that because that’s a whole other can of worms. I just get into that right now. I can’t. The pre-application process is being removed. What is that? 

JAIME: Well, now that we just have a written test, we don’t need a pre-application process. In fact, the number of testing sites should expand exponentially because now you should be able to go to any one of those testing centers where computerized tests are being given for all different kinds of licenses and take that test. You don’t have to show up at one of two facilities. 

ASHLEY: Wowl, a pre-application process. That’s like the department of redundancy department. Okay. Well, remove the practical examination, which we touched on in the beginning. I don’t know if I have any more to say about that.

JAIME: Hallelujah? 

ASHLEY: I mean, yeah. I feel like those who are pushing back against the removal of the practical examination are, if that were a Venn diagram with the people who were upset about the reduction in hours, it would just be a circle. They’re one in the same. And when you and I were discussing this earlier, I brought up the point of we’re here at Premiere Orlando. There are going to be so many beauty professionals in classrooms this weekend. You’re going to be in a classroom for 60 to 90 minutes learning a new technique by watching someone demo it on a mannequin head or on a screen, and then you take it back to your salon, and you do it. That’s in an hour. So if you’re using your time efficiently in school, I don’t understand how you can’t accomplish everything you need to accomplish to be a safe, skilled, new beauty professional in a thousand hours. I really don’t and I’m sure I’ll hear about it on Instagram. 

JAIME: I hope you do.

ASHLEY: All right, modifying mobile unit requirements. This is something that’s, I’ve watched with a lot of interest only because the mobile unit requirements were to me a bit wackadoodle.

JAIME: California has very few licensed mobile units because they had to be a certain length, they had to have certain safety features inside of them. You know, the water situation had to be taken care of. There’s a lot to it so it was like having a salon on wheels. And now that we see so many more different types of vehicles in different classes where, you know, it could be a situation where it would be perfectly safe, but maybe you don’t need to have the running water and maybe you don’t need to have, like, you know, you don’t need a bathroom in them. You know, it’s still a situation where the client is stepping inside the vehicle to get the service done.

ASHLEY: Right.

JAIME: It’s not working out of the trunk of your car. That’s something separate. 

ASHLEY: Well okay, but it’s our weird non-standard language in the beauty industry. When you say anything, mobile people just either think of a mobile unit, like an RV or a trailer or something like that, or like a food truck where you get your nails done versus, you know, someone like me who goes to location.

JAIME: On demand or.

ASHLEY: Right, in a state where that’s allowed, which is Illinois. And so I think they’re really, the language of that needs to be clarified just ever so slightly more. Okay, reduction in barbering and cosmetology courses to a thousand hours. I have nothing else to say about that. 

JAIME: Okay, and it’s a minimum of a thousand.

ASHLEY: Right.

JAIME: It’s not everyone’s program is going to get dropped to a thousand hours. Smart school owners will offer a thousand hour course. 

ASHLEY: Sure. 

JAIME: I can only imagine if they were able to do that and offer it at a very competitive price, they would attract a lot of students. Why make it longer than it has to be?

ASHLEY: I totally agree. Remove the requirement of the board to determine subjects of instruction for courses, oh my.

JAIME: Yeah, this one’s a little wonky because it has to do with the legislators pass legislation. Those are laws. The laws can give the regulators, the board, the authority to write regulations, but only as they fit underneath the legislation. So the board can’t write regulations unless they’ve been given permission to do so by the legislature. So in this instance, they sort of pulled back the curriculum and dragged it from regulation, pulled it across, to legislation. Not my favorite thing because you talk about a group of individuals who don’t understand our industry, don’t understand how the different content should be weighted in terms of how many hours should be assigned to each. And we can see that, oh, it’s not listed here, but one of the things was that they, to make it look good, they said that they would be increasing the number of hours that students would be studying health and safety. And we know that’s not necessary. It’s not necessary to spend more time on it. It’s necessary to spend quality time and then to enforce the practice, to make it habit, so that when you get into the salon, it’s just automatic that you do all the things that you were supposed to do to follow the health and safety regulations. 

ASHLEY: Magnets, man, how do they work? Okay. Allow cosmetology externs to be paid and start working after completing 25% of clock hours. 

JAIME: So this was actually a separate bill that was going nowhere, supported by those who would say stop SB 803. 

ASHLEY: Sure.

JAIME: Uh, yeah. And introduced by Republican. And again, just more opportunity to exploit students. Now people would say, well look, but they get to be paid. It’s like, let them graduate early. Let them go out and actually work as employees in a salon. Stop trying to hold onto them. What else can we say?

ASHLEY: Okay. So require licensees to identify whether they are or have an independent contractor operating in the establishment upon renewal. 

JAIME: We already had a survey that we would indicate certain things about our work status, whether we were still working in the industry, whether we were working full-time, part-time, were we a salon owner, were we an employee. So what they did was they took the language out because there was reference to booth rental. And because that’s not verbiage that the federal government uses. The IRS does not use the phrase booth rental. They use the term independent contractor. They just wanted to clean that up.

ASHLEY: I applaud any example where the verbiage becomes more uniform. Okay, and then next, require administrative fines to be for violations that directly impact consumer safety. How is this different than what was already on the books?

JAIME: Well, that’s a great question because I don’t have the administrative fine schedule in front of me and having worked on the revision of the health and safety regulations which is still in process, it’s going to make us go back through it again with this eye toward do we really, really, really need to worry about how laundry is being stored, for example? I mean like how much of a risk is that? Is that something that’s going to cause some problem where it’s going to impact consumer safety?

ASHLEY: Well, thinking about that nail salon by your house, maybe. Yikes, okay. 

JAIME: So that remains to be seen. We will be looking through that and now with the expansion of the scope for estheticians, you know, we’ll take that information in to account as well. 

ASHLEY: Definitely. 

JAIME: Yeah, and it doesn’t say the safety of the technician or the safety of the licensee. It’s consumer safety. 

ASHLEY: Sure, which is very much the scope of the BBC, of any state board, which I know comes as a surprise to a lot of our listeners and a lot of beauty professionals in general that the state board does not focus on that. There’s OSHA for that and other things for our safety. They are focused solely on consumer safety. Well, it’s passsed. It’s happened.

JAIME: It’s happened and will be happening. We don’t know exactly what the processes will be for each of these different things. And that’s something that I know Kristy Underwood, the executive officer and her staff were anticipating. So I know there’s been some planning and as these things get announced, if you are working in the state of California, if you’re a California licensee, make sure you sign up to be on their mailing list so that you get the notifications as they come across. There were some notifications that came out almost immediately after the bills were signed. In other words, guess what? We’re not scheduling any more practical exams because the exams we’ve already scheduled through the end of the year. We don’t have any more space to put you on the schedule and guess what? We’re not scheduling anything beyond that because as of January 1, there will be no practical exam. What I’m excited for when I look at what’s happened with this particular bill and there’s some others that we really haven’t spent any time talking about, is how they all interrelate, whether it be across issues of labor, or consumer safety, or access to education. All of this is coming together and it gives us a chance to make the connections between different parts of our government. So legislators who are committed to labor versus, we don’t have, sorry, I can’t even identify anyone who’s committed to our industry. I mean, it’s not a big enough thing, but that’s because we haven’t done enough to make ourselves known. And what we do does intersect across education, labor, personal service. I mean, there’s just so many different ways, small businesses. 

ASHLEY: So knowing what we know now about SB 803, and what it’s covering and the work that all of these agencies will have ahead of them, where does this leave us on the personal service permit? What’s happening with that now? Because we’ve, we’ve clarified what a mobile unit requirement must be based on this new law, so.

JAIME: Okay, so the last thing we knew was that the language for the personal service permit finally got approved. But that now with all of this, this is so much more important than that it’s going to not get introduced right away. That’s my sense of it.

And we do have a board meeting upcoming, so that’ll be on the agenda again. And I imagine the board is going to spend quite a bit of time talking about the process that they plan to implement these different parts of this. And some of it’s going to take some coordination. So for example, this, the reduction of hours, that this is not something that the board can do on its own because they don’t have sole oversight at the schools. They’re going to have to work together with the agency that oversees vocational schools in order to come up with a plan, and schools will have to submit a curriculum, and get approval for a shorter course.

ASHLEY: Okay, yeah. There’s a lot to do. There’s a lot behind the scenes happening. Once, you know, the governor signs it and it becomes law, but then how do you actually put it into practice and make it happen and that’s what we’re going to see. And I’m sure we will still continue to follow this process. And even though, you know, if you’re not in California, this is really interesting to watch because we’re, we’re seeing it from birth to, you know, it’s new life as a law. And as it moves through the process, learning how, if this were to happen in your state, you can be prepared for all of these different eventualities. But also to not be in the position of just becoming aware of something once it’s already done, and it’s already the law, and there’s nothing you can do until you were to get more steeped in the process and figure out a way to introduce new legislation or partner with someone on that. So we’re not just a California podcast, I promise. But this is such a huge state with the largest amount of licensees in our industry that other states are going to start to take notice. And as we stated in our last episode about this, this is a federal priority as well. So whether you live in a red or a blue state, this is something that’s potentially coming to you.

JAIME: It will be, and the time for legislators to introduce their next round of bills, you know, it might seem like a quiet time right now, but there’s a lot of work happening behind the scenes. Bills don’t come out of nowhere. That work is being done right now. And we won’t know what those bills look like initially until they get introduced when the new sessions begin after the new year.

ASHLEY: Well, exciting to watch. I’m looking forward to further discussion and, of course, we’ll link all previous episodes on SB 803, and learning to understand legislation and the process of it, and governmental affairs, and everything in the show notes. So make sure you check out those episodes as well as our guide on Instagram with SB 803 essentials so you can get up to speed if this is your first time hearing from us, or it’s something you just want to review and figure out how did we get here?

JAIME: And if you have more specific questions about this, please ask us. You know, particularly on Instagram. I tend to interact more on Facebook and that’s because it’s easy for me to link to the information. I’ve had, been having a lot of conversations about the practical exam and that sort of thing. And being able to show someone, not just a screenshot of what the DCA website says, but oh and here’s the link where you can look it up for yourself. If you don’t trust my screenshot, then you can go chase it down there.

ASHLEY: Well, as always, you can connect with us on this issue in any other on our Instagram, at @outgrowthpodcast. So make sure you follow us along there. 

JAIME: If you find this information worthwhile, which I certainly hope you do, we work really hard to bring you topics that aren’t that fun to talk about aometimes. I mean, would I love to spend my time interviewing some, you know, fabulous salon owner and chit chat about, you know, how they’ve grown their business five fold through the pandemic or something, whatever, like that’s even happened. 

ASHLEY: How my dreams came true. 

JAIME: Yeah. So yeah, that we do this. It’s something that it’s only at times like this, when everyone seems to pay attention to the kinds of things that we feel are most important. So we’re having like a little moment right now where everyone is focused on this and if they haven’t been, it shows.

ASHLEY: Yeah, and love us or hate us, we’re going to do our very best to bring you the facts, of course, you know, with our personal spin, cause it’s our show.

JAIME: It’s our show. 

ASHLEY: And we can talk about it the way we want to, but if you are enjoying Outgrowth, feel free to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts and you can do that now with just one click. Visit bit.ly/outgrowthpodcast.

JAIME: Thanks, Ashley. 

ASHLEY: Thanks, Jaime. Well, we should do this again soon.

JAIME: I know, maybe tomorrow.

ASHLEY: Until next week, everybody, be smart. 

JAIME: Be safe.

ASHLEY: Bye. 

JAIME: Bye.