JAIME: Welcome to Outgrowth: A Slice of Pro Beauty.I’m Jaime Schrabeck, your host for this week’s revisited episode, Exclusions Apply: What Your Liability Insurance Won’t Cover, Part 1. Our guest Tracy Donley of Associated Skin Care Professionals provided so much useful information about the benefits and limits of liability insurance that we divided this interview into 2 parts. After listening, you’ll want to visit the show notes for our affiliate link which gives you a discounted rate and the link to the second part of our interview. Let’s grow together.  

JAIME: Welcome, Tracy. We’ve been asking so many questions amongst ourselves about insurance. It’s time we heard from an actual insider. Thanks for being with us. 

TRACY: Thank you so much. I’m excited to answer all your burning questions.

JAIME: Now, when we introduced you, we said that you were the executive director of Associated Skin Care Professionals, but we know that that organization actually has sister organizations for other beauty professionals and massage therapists.

TRACY: Yeah, that’s right. So I oversee three of the associations, probably the most well known is Associated Skin Care Professionals like you mentioned, but I also oversee Associated Nail Professionals and Associated Hair Professionals and then my sister organization is Associated Massage and Bodywork Professionals. So yeah, we work with all those beauty and wellness practitioners out there.

ASHLEY: So one of the biggest benefits that I know your organizations are known for is liability insurance. Knowing that there’s just a lot of question marks right now, could you just explain for us briefly the differences amongst the different types of business insurances that are available to say a salon owner or an individual service provider like a booth renter?

TRACY: Thank you for asking that question. It’s a good one cause not all insurance’s created equally. And insurance that we recommend and as part of membership is our professional liability insurance. So what’s included in there is your professional liability, your product liability,   and then your general liability insurance. So, professional liability insurance is basically, if you were to do something neglectful or make a mistake during a treatment, this insurance is going to cover you as long as you are within your state scope of practice. Now, product liability insurance, that’s really important because a lot of people kind of skim over that but, it’s a big part of what we do all the time,in the services that you guys are providing. So that covers even at-home care. So for instance if you recommend professional retail products to your clients and they have a reaction, let’s say they’re allergic to something or something just doesn’t go well, or even if the product is possibly even expired, and you didn’t know that it was and it caused a reaction. This is going to cover you for that as well. It also can cover you even in the treatment room. So it really just depends on what those circumstances are. And then general liability and that is your normal things like slip and fall. We get stories once in awhile about clients who maybe had someone call and file a claim on them. One situation was really interesting recently where a client had said someone was suing them, so they interviewed their client and found out that she had broken her ankle. So our insurance company went out and came to the site where it happened and checked it out. They didn’t see any loose rugs or torn carpeting or cords that could have caused it. After questioning the client a little bit further, it turned out that she had actually fallen off her high heels and broke her ankle the night before and wanted our member to pay for the medical claims.

ASHLEY: Wow.

TRACY: Yeah. So that’s an example of why general insurance is important even if it’s a faulty claim.

JAIME: There’s so much to unpack in what you just said, Tracy. 

TRACY: Yeah.

JAIME: Let me start with going back to one of the first things you said, you mentioned that your professional liability will cover you under your state scope of practice. So I’m assuming that having a license would be the first requirement of even obtaining this insurance coverage?

TRACY: Yes. You are required to have a license to practice. So yeah, you do need that.

ASHLEY: In your interactions with massage therapists, hairstylists, and barbers, of course, skincare and nail professionals, how are their insurance needs similar and how are they different based on the different disciplines of beauty and areas of the body that each one works with?

TRACY: Actually believe it or not, all insurance policies are roughly the same. You’re gonna have a little bit of different exclusions and that’s what I’d probably recommend to everybody out there. Don’t just get your policy and say, okay, I’m good. Make sure that you are looking at the exclusions within the policy. For instance, with massage, you may need an additional waiver or rider for doing hot stone massage. For aesthetics, if you are going to practice something along the lines of laser where you do need a medical director in order to do that, that’s another additional policy. So it’s really important that you are looking at the exclusions and of course at any time if you ever have questions, you should reach out to your insurance provider or one of us.

JAIME: Knowing that our scope of practice limits us, and that we are always using products whether it’s during our appointments or treatments or however we want to title the interactions that we have with our clients, the liability that we have for the products that we sell, does that change if we actually make our own product?

TRACY: That is a great question. It’s kind of a gray space. If you are actually making your product in your kitchen, you won’t be covered. If you are going out and working with a private label company or white label company, then yes, you are covered. So it all kind of stems from the environment where the products are being made.

ASHLEY: Definitely. Okay. So another fun scenario for you. So if a salon owner has a policy,  does that cover everyone who works in the salon?

TRACY: So, yes, that’s how that works, but we do not sell those kinds of policies. That’s not part of at least how our organization works. We focus primarily on the sole practitioner, so that means it’s for an individual. The nice thing is though, it protects them no matter where they are. So if you’re a mobile practitioner, it covers you. If you’re working out of your home, it covers you. If you are working at a spa or a salon, it’ll cover you wherever you go.

ASHLEY: Provided that that’s allowed in your state, correct?

TRACY: Provided that the treatments that you are doing are within your scope. And I would probably say, when in doubt, make sure you’re always following state and local guidelines as it relates to your license and what you’re allowed to do.

ASHLEY: Yeah. And I’m only asking that because I know that that’s something I see in the Facebook groups talked about especially right now when there are lots of beauty professionals who are just trying to find a way to get through.

TRACY: Right.

ASHLEY: And are maybe making some questionable choices about where they’re offering their services whether it be at home or in their clients’ homes.

TRACY: Well I’m glad you actually bring that up because just to underline, right now, if your state does have a stay at home order in place, there is no practicing that you should be doing on anyone in the hopes that you would be covered. So that’s a black and white thing right now.  Make sure if you are in a stay at home order scenario that you are not practicing.

ASHLEY: Amen.

TRACY: You guys had asked me about a few other insurances that people should consider that I didn’t mention. I just kind of went through the three that we do offer, but another one I think that’s important to consider is business personal property insurance. A lot of times people will think, oh, I’ve got my professional liability insurance. I’m set, but they’re actually not. They want to consider business personal property insurance because that, in a nutshell, protects your business stuff, so the things like your computer, your treatment table or anything that’s in your treatment space, really is all the things that you need to do business. It covers that. So it covers it from theft, flood, and fire. So something they should consider as well.

ASHLEY: I actually carry that personally because I am a session manicurist. Everything I do is mobile and I carry a kit with me that’s about a $12,000 kit if I were to have to replace it. And I’ve hear these horror stories of it was stolen out of someone’s car. There was a fire and they have to replace everything, or the airline damaged it and it’s lost, missing, gone, whatever. And that’s such a great point because I think people think insurance is insurance for some reason. And that once they have it, they’re covered for everything and every scenario. My parents owned a disaster restoration business 

TRACY: Oh, wow.

ASHLEY: All through my high school and college years and it’s very interesting when you’re presented with this scenario and you think, oh, I have insurance, I’m, good, and then you realize there’s a difference between replacement value versus current market value and things like that, and so that’s such a great tip, just so that the listeners understand that there is a difference between things happening, and your actual physical things being lost.

TRACY: Yeah, and we do, so that is business personal property is one of the other additional coverages that we do offer for an additional fee. Same, like I had previously mentioned with advanced modality insurance for things like for estheticians, for things like microblading, laser, different body contouring, basically anything that you could think of that in the majority of the states, besides California cause you can’t do very much there, needs a medical director, so that’s something to consider as well. And then, another couple of policies that we do not offer, but is short-term and long-term disability, especially if you’re that solo esthetician or practitioner or massage therapist or nail artist. That’s something you might want to consider because if you aren’t working, you’re probably not making money. There’s also  business owner policy out there or loss of income, business interruption insurance. Those are definitely three big ones that I would 100% take a look at for just helping you secure your business and your career.

JAIME: Tracy, what are the biggest misconceptions about professional liability insurance that you come across as you’re dealing with policy holders submitting claims, perhaps other, I’m not even sure what the process is, I’m sure we’ll have you explain that as well, but initially, what are those misconceptions? I think Ashley touched on one, that it covers everything when we know that’s not the case.

TRACY: Yeah. I think the biggest one that really breaks my heart when I hear from people who aren’t our members share with me when they’ve had a situation where a claim was filed against them is that there’s two different types of professional liability policies out there and it’s really important that you look at it. One is, is it a claims-made policy and one is that, is it a current form? So you’re probably saying, what are those? Cause that’s what I said when I first heard  about the different insurance policies. But basically a claims-made policy is one when you were covered during the time that it happened, and when you have a claims-made policy. Let me just give you a scenario. That’ll be easier to describe it. Say we had a member and she was pregnant and it was Christmas and she decided that she was gonna let her policy drop because of the fact that she knew she was going to take a few months off. Right? So let’s say it was December, and so she does, but then two weeks after she made that decision and dropped her insurance coverage, she got a note in the mail saying that she was being sued from a woman who had a bad experience. So she dials up her insurance company and it’s a claims-made insurance company, and they look at her records and say, well, your policy has expired. You’ve let it lapse. And she said, but I was insured during the time that this situation happened. So I should be covered, and unfortunately with a claims-made policy, it would not. Now if you have an occurrence form policy, that means it’s covered no matter what. So even if it’s two years go by and you don’t even have the insurance coverage anymore, but it happened when you were covered, you would be covered.

ASHLEY: That’s really interesting.

JAIME: Wow.

TRACY: Yeah. So looking for those two different – one is claims-made and the other one is occurrence form. And one other bit that you should look at too when you’re deciding what insurance company to go with is you should look to see if it’s a shared policy or if it’s an individual policy. So what that means is if it’s a shared policy, and for instance let’s say it’s a $6 million policy, that means you’re sharing that with all the other people who are subscribing to that policy. So it could possibly be, that at the end of the year, and you have a claim, your claim wouldn’t be covered. Isn’t that crazy? That they could possibly not cover you, because they’ve already spent that $6 million on other claims.

ASHLEY: They’ve exhausted the pool and so, it’s time to get out.

TRACY: Yeah, and I mean just to put it in context, our policies are $6 million for each person,   $2 million per occurrence, meaning product, general, and professional. And we’ve had claims, like we just had one this year. It was our biggest one ever. It’s $2.5 million. And that was one person.

ASHLEY: I am speechless.

JAIME: If that doesn’t scare people, I don’t know what will.

TRACY: No, I don’t want to scare people, but I just want to make sure that they’re really making informed decisions, you know? Because just like the cheapest isn’t always the best, especially if something does go wrong, you know?

JAIME: Tracy, explain the process if you were to receive notification that someone were suing you and you were required to then provide your insurance information, what happens? What protection does the insurance actually offer?

TRACY: Yeah. Well, it’s pretty great, to tell you the truth, at least, you know, this is how it works with our company. Since we are not actually the insurance company, they’re a partner of ours. We’re not an insurance company. We do provide you with your own liaison, that is with the insurance company, so you don’t have to feel like you can speak their lingo, and they walk you through the whole process. So what I would say is you would give a call to our membership department and they’re going to walk you through it. They’re going to ask you lots of different questions. I think the most important thing that I try to tell people all the time is that when in doubt document, so even if you just have a weird feeling that that wasn’t maybe your best service or that client wasn’t happy, document every single thing from it. Hopefully you never need that, but a lot of times what we’ll find too is, and take pictures, you know, whatever you can do. What we’ll find a lot of times is that lawyers, in this litigious society that we live in, will wait like possibly even a year and a half since the incident had occurred just in the hopes that memories will be foggy, records will be missing, and typically juries always side with the plaintiff. So document, document, document. One of the other things that we do too is that we appoint an attorney for you. So it’s either can be an attorney or a mediator will take on your case. We ideally do try to have everything settled outside of court. It tends to be a lot better and, interesting enough, a lot of people will say, well, I suppose if I have a claim or an incident, then I’m definitely going to be kicked off the policy, or my insurance is going to be more expensive. That is not the case. It’s not like car insurance. So as long as your license isn’t taken away,  you’ll still be a member and still be insured.

ASHLEY: You made an interesting point about documentation and I wanted to ask. In Illinois where I’m based, we have to keep a disinfection log, a written paper log next to each pedicure station. Our state board mandates that. It needs to list each service that was completed as far as the time it was done, the name of the technician who has sanitized and disinfected the area.   It’s a log that’s kept essentially daily. I know many states don’t have this requirement. When you’re saying document everything, would something like this be useful in a claim situation,   even if it’s not necessarily required by your state?

TRACY: Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Hands down. And, that’s the thing too, I mean, that sounds like a beautiful log, and that would be ideal. But even if someone isn’t doing it in such an organized fashion. I mean, it could be, they could write a note in a notebook and take some notes down or send an email to someone that gives it a timestamp. It’s never enough documentation. More is better, but something like you’re describing sounds amazing. And if they were to add in notes and the notes could be like, client seem disappointed or disengaged when they left, client seemed happy and paid and tip to me, such and such a money, you know, like all those types of things do really matter.

ASHLEY: Client fell on public sidewalk, not inside salon, as seen on video footage. 

TRACY: Yeah, exactly. It’s really important for the client and for you, even if they’re paying in cash, to always give a receipt. Because what you do when you give a receipt is you show when they were there, what time they were there, and that helps with those types of things as well.

ASHLEY: Interesting. So in your experience, what other information have you, or has the insurance company gathered from an insured to defend a claim? Just some examples.

TRACY: Oh, gosh, I don’t know if I could go into detail on that. I think the thing that they’re using the most is going to be photos. So, and the thing that people who are filing the claims, they’re always supplying the photos. So I know it sounds strange but, taking a photo and you could even if it’s, and it might be a little bit more difficult in, I don’t know, in a nail setting then maybe in a hair or an esthetics, but before and afters are great for clients’ folders. Just always having that kind of a thing to show the progression because that’s the first thing that they’re going to send to you are photos of let’s say a chemical peel that went wrong and the face is really raw and maybe they could have done something to reactivate let’s say a chemical peel would they went home cause they didn’t listen to what the at-home instructions were, or what have you. So I know it sounds strange, but if you can just find a way to incorporate client check in and client file, I think that keeps you safer.

JAIME: If it weren’t for salon management software, I wouldn’t remember what I did last week, except right now I’m not doing anything. So there’s that. But is there a statute of limitations for a client to file a claim against you?

TRACY: It does depend state by state. I think the majority of the states, it’s around two years.  but I would advise people to take a look at that. The attorney is always going to know what the statute of limitations is, and a lot of times that’s like what I was referring to before, sometimes they will wait to right before that statue of limitations is gonna run out. Do you guys want a couple other tips of what to do if an accident occurs?

JAIME: Absolutely.

TRACY: So, we always say, know what to do before the incident happens, right? So that’s why this whole podcast that you guys are doing is so awesome and important, I think. Make sure you stay calm. Assess the injury. If the client needs medical treatment, tell them to go to the hospital urgent care and go get it immediately. Okay? But now this is where it’s going to sound a little bit harsh. Do not offer to pay for medical expenses. Not even in this situation. Not even if they call you later. Never offer to pay medical expenses. Never admit fault or liability. You can say things like, oh, this is terrible. I feel so bad for you. Oh, I’m sure you must be in a lot of discomfort. You can have empathy, but don’t admit fault. And then like we had mentioned, take photos and then, you can always contact your insurance company any time. It’s okay. Even if a claim doesn’t get filed against you, you’re not going to get black marks next to your name or kicked off the policy if you just call your insurance company and say, hey, this is happening or this happened. I don’t feel good about it. I don’t know if it’s going to be a problem or not. And then the other thing I would mention is just never get angry or be defensive in the moment. Just try to make sure that the emotions don’t get too elevated.

JAIME: In trying to be proactive, what role, if any, do consent forms or waivers have in our types of businesses?

TRACY: Oh, they’re a must. I mean, you must absolutely be having those. I think that it’s just another layer of communication and understanding. I would never rely just on an intake form or a consent form. I would also suggest that everyone verbally go through these details with people, especially, not even just the intake, but the at-home care or what that looks like. So send them home with something in writing, plus be sure to verbally go through those. And I think if that’s all well-documented, that’s gonna help your case quite a bit as well.

JAIME: Does a waiver absolve us of responsibility?

TRACY: That’s not a hard, and fast, yes. It just really depends on how the waiver is written, and if it’s written well, then yes. But, there’s always circumstances where that might not be enough.

JAIME: Do you provide feedback on waivers that we might want to have our clients sign or is that something we need to take to an attorney?

TRACY: I would take it to your attorney. We do provide on almost all of our association sites for members in the gated area. I think for ASCP, we have over 150 different treatment and consent forms and intake forms. I’m sure we have around 50 or so on the hair side. Andwe’re continuously putting new ones on there. We just recently had an article. It was a whole issue in January. It was like our inclusive marketing where we need to be really thoughtful about being not gender specific, or non-binary or just not labeling people in a way that feels offensive to them. So, like I’m saying, it’s, we’re constantly updating those forms and, um, and we’re actually working on ones right now for COVID-19, just to make sure that we can cover you all as well as we can, and we’re running that through our insurance partners.

ASHLEY: Okay. Well, you said it. So here it comes. 

TRACY: Yeah.

ASHLEY: All right. So how does liability insurance work in a situation? How would it protect an insured, if they were accused of spreading an illness?

TRACY: Well, I’m glad you asked that, because I don’t know any insurance policy out there that covers communicable diseases. It’s just not something that it covers. So unfortunately, and I don’t know, I know Jaime and I had chatted about this, I don’t know any insurance company that is doing any kind of a special rider. Uh, I had reached out to the owners of our insurance company and it was kind of one of those things that was not interesting at all to them. There’s just a lot. There’s so much risk involved, and just if you start to imagine how difficult the investigation would be, and we aren’t even good at doing tracing and tracking on a normal level,  it would be very difficult.

JAIME: And the language we should be looking for in reviewing our policies. We might’ve read them when we first got them. I doubt that, however, I think most people just sign up and probably never look at their policy again until they might have a claim filed against them, but we’re looking for exclusions. Is that the term? 

TRACY: Yeah. So there’ll be a page that usually is about one or two pages long that will have  basically terms and it will detail all the different exclusions.

JAIME: What are some other common exclusions that are found in these kinds of policies?

TRACY: Oh, you’re asking the good, deep questions, Jaime. I would say, as far as, as estheticians, you would see that there would be no permanent ink, permanent makeup. In a regular policy, you might see, also too that you can do a semipermanent ink. But it’s gonna also then have language in there that will fall back to the state scope of practice. So some states don’t allow that. You’ll also see things in there especially about eyelash tinting and using the different dyes. They are very specific and outlining what type of dyes you can or can’t use for eyelash and eyebrow tinting. Definitely in massage, there’s going to be different types of massage techniques or types of massage you’re not allowed to do, especially when it goes into some of the specific ones that go deep into the muscles and really are affecting the muscles in a different way. I could pull up some exclusions. Do you want to? Should we take a look? 

JAIME: And I think we’ll have you elaborate on the lash and brow tinting, because that may come as news for a number of people.

TRACY: Oh yeah. I mean it’s strict cause it also discusses, I believe, the FDA. 

JAIME: And that’s exactly why we’d want you to do that.

TRACY: Guess what? I have exclusions.

ASHLEY: All right.

JAIME: Lay’em on us.

TRACY: Okay. So it’s important that you have an active license. If you don’t have an active license, you will not be covered. A lot of people might not think about that, but that’s true. Any claim by a person who has ever been a research subject of a named insured or has ever solicited to be a research subject. They would not be.

ASHLEY: A research subject, meaning I’m going to try out a new product on you?

TRACY: Yup. another thing, it’s interesting too, I know a lot of people like to have parties and sometimes bridal showers and get togethers. So there is exclusions about having liquor on the premises. So if someone was injured from drinking or being under the influence in your establishment, you wouldn’t be covered.

JAIME: And that brings up the point that just because your state may allow, for example, liquor to be served in your establishment, that does not mean your insurance policy will cover you.

TRACY: That’s correct. Yep. There’s such strange ones though in here too. They have things about like aircraft and watercraft. So, I don’t know maybe for you Ashley, this matters if you were like on a luxury yacht or something.

ASHLEY: Honestly, it has happened. I have done nails on a boat before.

TRACY: Okay. Well, I think you might still be covered, but it says any claim arising out of ownership, maintenance, or use to others of any aircraft or watercraft will not be covered.

ASHLEY: Okay. So maybe that’s if I spill my nail polish remover, it starts on fire, and the boat is a loss.

TRACY: Yes, let’s hope that doesn’t happen. And see, and it’s really interesting, I want to find the communicable disease area so you guys can just even hear what the verbiage is because they do even speak on here. I mean, it goes pretty deep. Like if you sat and read these, you would be like, what? Because it talks about war time even.

JAIME: Is it number 39 because I think I’ve seen some?

TRACY: Gosh, you’re good. Yeah. Do you want me to read it to you guys?

JAIME: Yes, please, because I’ve seen some communication coming from your organization to those who’ve already asked, and I remember the number 39.

TRACY: You are good, girl. That is awesome. Yes, so any claim arising from or related to the transmission of acquired immune deficiency syndrome or human immunodeficiency virus or exposure to another having same, or to substances or materials contaminated with the same, or fear of contracting acquired immunodeficiency syndrome or human immunodeficiency virus or any disease or illness or sexually transmitted disease or any form of communicable disease. So some of these will go very specific, like there is a policy in the ASCP one for tanning. So any claims arising from use or operation and maintenance or ownership of tanning beds, that’s an exclusion. If someone gets skin cancer from a tanning bed, that would not be covered, but people can do spray tans in their facility and it talks about that. And then it goes into strip testing for chemical peels and things of that nature. And it also gets into very specifics about LED and microcurrent, talking about the number of jules that is covered within this non-advanced modality policy. But you mentioned that you wanted to hear the eyelash or eyebrow coloring limitation. So any claim arising out of the use or administration or application of any dye or coloring to eyelashes or eyebrows unless such dye of coloring was specifically manufactured for such use. And I do know that, I’d have to find it in the policy. We do specifically in a different location mentioned that you cannot use tar dye. So any dye that has tar in it, because it’s not approved by the FDA.

JAIME: Does the same apply to henna?

TRACY: No, actually we are okay with henna though and we’ve been experimenting and talking to the insurance company a little bit more just because henna has become more of a trend as it relates to eyebrows. So henna’s okay still. 

JAIME: You’re okay with henna, but the state may not be because it’s not FDA approved.

TRACY: Yup. That is true. Again, when in doubt, look at your  scope.

JAIME: One thing I’m thinking is to never let my policy lapse.

TRACY: Right. Because I mean, one day could be the difference. Also too, a lot of policies do give you a grace period. I believe ours is seven days. But if an insurance provider wanted to just be difficult and not cover your claim because it’s a bad one, they could fall back on that and say, sorry, you were late, even if you were in the grace period.

JAIME: I wouldn’t trust a salon owner to have that policy if I were a professional who is paying booth rent in a space. I would think it would be a recommendation to have your own policy just to be sure.

TRACY: Yeah, that’s exactly what we do. We always tell people, making sure, even if your salon or spa owner says they are covering you, how important it really is to make sure that you’re taking care of yourself. We always do say, ask these four questions. So am I covered if my clients sues me individually? Cause that’s real and that happens. So a lot of times what attorneys will do is they’re going to file claims or suits to the owner of the salon, to you individually, potentially, depending on the case, the landlord, depending on the case, the franchise owner or the corporation. So they’re going to go after whatever buckets they can. So you need to make sure that that policy that the salon or spa owner says that is covering you covers you individually. And then the other one is, does the employer’s policy cover every treatment you provide? So I’ve heard stories before where a salon owner, spa owner just wasn’t really keeping up with their policy and the treatments that they were introducing into their menu. So for instance, let’s say all of a sudden they decided to offer IPL services. Never updated their policy, and you’re the one performing the IPL, and you end up getting sued. That’s happened before, and then, also too, the other question is, is their policy current? Do they renew on time? And to your point, Jaime, you know, what happens if it lapses? What does that look like? You’re not in control of that if it’s your employer’s coverage. And then, we had mentioned before, are you covered everywhere you work? So let’s say you are working in a spa, but you also do wedding makeup sometimes for this employer which is offsite. Are you covered when you’re offsite?

JAIME: As affordable as the policies are, I would just feel that much more comfortable if everyone working in my salon had their own, in addition to my having one as a salon owner.

TRACY: Oh yeah. And also too, it’s not just even about the coverage, at least with ASCP and ANP and AHP, it’s about the support that you’re getting. So, if something were to happen, we’ve got your back and we’ve got, you get a real person to talk to, or even if you just have questions about your scope of practice and want to have someone help you understand that, cause a lot of them are very gray. We can help you do that too. It’s basically like having your, your buddy be able to give you good information that you can trust.

JAIME: There’s so much that I think that some of our listeners might be thinking, well, that’s gotta be expensive. Could you just touch on how incredibly affordable all that is, plus the insurance protection?

TRACY: Yeah, of course. So for all of the associations, ABMP, AHP, ANP, they’re only $199 for the year, so that’s all your insurance, a support system, just a dial away, like a phone call away or a chat away, any question that you may have and then all this marketing collateral. Now esthetics for ASCP, that’s a little more expensive. That’s $259 per year. You guys do some riskier services, but it’s still a great deal. And here’s the other thing, and I don’t even think I told Jaime and Ashley this yet, but guess what? Any of your listeners, we’re going to give you guys $20 off, if they use a very special URL and I will give that to you guys within the show notes.

ASHLEY: That is fantastic. I will be applying through that myself.

TRACY: Just to say thanks.

JAIME: This is so not planned. Thank you so much.

TRACY: I know, but I was thinking about it. I was like, oh my gosh, I should totally like hook them up with something special.

JAIME: We so appreciate that. 

ASHLEY: That’s phenomenal. Thank you.

JAIME: I teach an entire class about salon safety, and I think in reflecting on what I say, if there were one thing to spend your money on, as a salon owner or as an individual service provider, this has got to be number one, whether it’s a requirement or not. If you’re in business, you must, you must protect it. 

TRACY: Screaming it from the mountain, Jaime. Scream it. Yes.

ASHLEY: Well Tracy, thank you so much for your time today, and I know that this is going to be one of our most listened series of episodes. So if you are listening to part one, make sure you tune into part two. This is such good information and It’s something every beauty professional needs to hear.

TRACY: Well thank you so much ladies. It’s been a blast talking about insurance. Who would ever think that I would say that?

ASHLEY: Well, that was a great discussion of so many burning questions about protecting ourselves and our businesses.

JAIME: Tune in next week for part two where we discuss even more must-have info about liability insurance and how to proceed from here. Check the show notes for all of the resources we discussed today and the special offer from Associated Professionals for discounted membership, which includes your insurance.

ASHLEY: Please subscribe, rate, and review Outgrowth on your favorite podcast platform. It helps us reach more listeners like you.

JAIME: As always, you can follow us and comment on recent episodes on Instagram at @outgrowthpodcast. 

ASHLEY: Until next week.

JAIME: Stay safe.

ASHLEY: Bye.