Government Affairs: Get Involved

best beauty salon podcasts 2020

Will Congress give the beauty industry any economic relief? What actions can we take to make a difference at the state and federal levels? From tracking legislation to exercising our right to vote, we have opportunities to influence the direction of our government and the future of our industry. We welcome back Myra Reddy, Director of Government Affairs and Industry Relations for the Professional Beauty Association.

Show Notes


Register to Vote

Professional Beauty Association (PBA)

Professional Beauty Association (PBA) Advocacy

FICA Tax Tip Fairness


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Edited for length and clarity.


ASHLEY: Welcome to Outgrowth: A Slice of Pro Beauty with your hosts Ashley Gregory.

JAIME: And Jaime Schrabeck. The ongoing health crisis and economic hardship caused by the coronavirus pandemic challenge not only individuals and families, but our government at every level. From local and county to state and federal levels, difficult decisions are being made on our behalf.

ASHLEY: For an update, we welcome our special guest Myra Reddy from the Professional Beauty Association. Let’s grow together. 

JAIME: Welcome, Myra. Thanks for joining us.

MYRA: Thank you for having me. It’s so great to be back.

JAIME: As the PBA’s Director of Government Affairs and Industry Relations, your work encompasses the state and federal levels, including data collection. What have you learned about how the beauty industry has changed economically this year?

MYRA: Well, the beauty industry has drastically changed economically this year. We’re at an all-time low for the number of jobs in employment-based salons and these states are suffering from a drastic budget cut and budget shortage as a result of the COVID pandemic. And salons are unfortunately struggling to get back into shape in regards to the number of clients that they’re going to be able to see, the amount of services they will be able to provide. As salons and barber shops reopen, they do so under restrictions due to PPE requirements, which we all support these PPE requirements and safety protocols. However, they do place a limitation on the services and the capability to really provide a wide variety of services that salons are generally used to providing for their clients due to PPE restrictions. So facials are a great example. If you’re required to leave the mask on, you are unable to complete that service or to provide a beard trimming, waxing, any of those types of services, for example. In the state of California specifically, we know that salons and barbershops are starting to reopen on a county by county basis and we still do not have the go ahead on nail technician services, esthetics, electrolysis, and massage. And so we are working hard to bring those services back into the loop, but everyone, every small business out there, has really taken a hit and is struggling to get back to the level of revenue that they originally were at prior to COVID.

ASHLEY: So at the state level, how would you say legislative priorities have changed? Is there   just less happening or shifting focus? What’s your characterization of that?

MYRA: Well, we do have about six or seven states right now that are still left in legislative session. There are states that are year round, like California, for example. They do adjourn, but many states have carry-over sessions, meaning their legislation, if it wasn’t introduced last year, will carry forward one year, some states two years. And then we have some states that weren’t in session at all that will come into session in 2021. So far we’ve reviewed, or are tracking in our state-leg system, over 867 state bills. And these range from different topics to cosmetology licensing, chemical use and restrictions, criminal records, that meaning, are criminal records looked at in terms of being able to apply for a state license? Mobile licensing has come up, and product bans, recall requirements, things affecting the state boards of cosmetology and salon safety. All these types of bills have some sort of impact on the professional beauty industry at some level. And what we have seen, we’ve seen a lot of license reciprocity bills come through again. This has to deal with sometimes just for military spouses being able to work in a different state because they really can’t control their partners being a transfer. And then we try to extend that out. If military partners are being able to receive licensed reciprocity or have exceptions being made, then we’d like to see that across the board. So PBA in general is a huge supporter and proponent for legislation that offers license reciprocity throughout the states. We’ve seen some legislation that is a direct reflection of COVID. Some states have looked at allowing cosmetology schools to offer a certain percentage of their training online where we did not see that before. There has been an extension of permit expiration dates. So if you had a permit to operate in a certain location, and that was coming up for renewal, they might extend that. Same thing with your actual license, specific to whatever your license type may be, that they’re allowing an extension to that, or a flat-out renewal without requiring a occupational licensing fee. So we’re seeing some legislation that looks like that. A lot on criminal records, I mentioned that before, but a lot at looking at what disqualifies someone from being able to obtain a license. Now we’re already seeing a little snapshot of what we might be looking at in 2021 come January. And the main issue that I see states talking about right now is their budget, and funding small businesses, funding unemployment insurance, looking at housing issues due to a possible rise in eviction rates, and working with their state constituents as a whole. So I think the leading topic would be for the next year for legislative sessions among the states is going to be the budget deficit.

JAIME: Myra, are you anticipating much turnover of the composition of these different state legislatures once the election happens?

MYRA: I am, and even if there isn’t much turnover, if, for example, states that there are term limits, they may not be up yet so people may remain, but party changes. The partisanship of party changes among state legislatures, as well as the federal government, will impact leadership roles, and positions, and committee assignments. So those changes will, you will see new leadership put in place, either both over the House and the Senate, and in California for the assembly. New leaders come in and come into more powerful roles at the committee level. As their party comes into power, those positions, if they were held by the opposite party before, will be replaced by the new party that’s in power. So we are expecting to see those changes.

ASHLEY: So when Congress comes back at the federal level, what should we really be watching out for?

MYRA: Well, Congress is expected to be back in full swing after the Labor Day holiday. And now that both the Democratic and Republican national conventions have come to a close, we can expect them to have more of their attention focused  on legislation. Now we are still expecting a fifth version of a COVID relief package that should address the unemployment insurance benefits, PPP changes, benefits such as PPE credit for small businesses that had to spend money, money most of them did not have, on PPE requirements, masks, any modifications they made to their businesses, and increased amount of safety and sanitation protocols. We’re looking at a credit there. And then this is also where we’re hoping to find our FICA tax tip legislation that PBA continues to work on.

JAIME: Could you give our listeners a brief recap of what that is, because if they haven’t been paying attention, this might be completely unfamiliar.

MYRA: Absolutely. Thank you for inviting me to do so. The Professional Beauty Association has been working for quite a few years, as long as I’ve been here and I’ve been here almost 11 years, I can’t believe it, but we have been working on legislation in Congress that’s really about tax parity and fairness. Just to give you a brief amount of history on the FICA tax tip legislation, back in 1993, a credit was granted to restaurant owners. And this credit was passed by Congress and it was recognized by Congress that it really just doesn’t make sense to have an employer pay FICA taxes on tips. Now tips are required to be reported. Tips are income, but the tip is really between the person providing the service and the person receiving the service. It really doesn’t have much to do with the employer. The employer doesn’t pay it out as income. They don’t receive any benefit from the tip. It’s an exchange between the person providing the service and their client. However, the employer is required to pay taxes on that tipped income. So Congress in 1993 told the restaurant owners, you know what? That doesn’t make sense. We agree with you. We’re going to allow a 45B FICA tax tip credit, and this 45B FICA tax tip credit is written into the IRS laws. So it’s not something that’s set to expire or has to be revisited every Congress. So it’s existed since 1993, and it allows the restaurant owner to receive a dollar for dollar credit on the FICA taxes paid on tips. Now they still report all this money when they file their taxes and they still pay the taxes, but they get that credit back. What we’re asking Congress to do is to extend that credit from the restaurant industry to the professional beauty industry, allowing owners, employers, now this has to be in an employment-based establishment, to have the same dollar for dollar credit on the taxes that they’re paying on tips. But, due to COVID, we’ve gone a step further on this issue. We have asked Congress to make this credit retroactive for salon owners. And the reason we’ve done that is because we are looking for a way to provide immediate liquidity to salon owners. So if this is retroactive three, four, or five years, and you’ve been paying $30,000 on FICA taxes on tips each of those years, you reported that. You paid it. It is filed in your IRS tax reports. You would have immediate access. or what I just say, a reimbursement on those FICA taxes on tips. Not a grant, not a loan, you would essentially be getting your money back. That is an excellent one way to allow our employers out there to find a way to pay perhaps for rent payments that they’ve renegotiated due to  COVID shutdown, to replace funding for money they’ve spent on PPE. Mayb, perhaps even get them through their next payroll. So it’s immediate liquidity for our salon owners and then it’s also looking forward as well. We have had great support, an enormous amount of participation from many PBA members. We’ve had great support for this legislation in Congress. Our sponsors are doing a wonderful job. We have HR 1349 on the House side and Senate bill 2634. We’ve had op-eds placed, Bloomberg, morning talks. Multiple media outlets have picked up on this and we’re really looking to make sure that the beauty isn’t left out again and receives this credit.

JAIME: Would this be standalone legislation or would it be attached to a larger COVID relief bill?

MYRA: This legislation would be included inside of the next COVID relief legislation from Congress.

JAIME: So that indicates that that hasn’t happened yet.

MYRA: Correct. It has not happened yet. So this is what they will be working on when they return to DC after Labor Day.

JAIME: Should we expect any specific economic help for us from Congress?

MYRA: I think we will see economic support in forms of credits like the PPE credit that we talked about earlier and any type of relief due to unemployment benefits, looking at a stay on housing and business evictions. I think the overall COVID relief package is meant to support all  of those issues across the board.

ASHLEY: Congress is off until after the Labor Day weekend. Is there anything that we can be doing as industry advocates right now to get through to them or to keep our industry front of mind?

MYRA: Yes, absolutely, and thank you for asking that. If you visit on our advocacy tab, there’s a section that reads take action. And there’s different campaigns on this page. If you click on the campaign, it reads help include salons in the upcoming stimulus legislation. There’s another one to call your members of Congress for salon support. Both of these campaigns are targeted towards adding the FICA tax tip legislation on behalf of the beauty industry into the next COVID relief package. I can tell you right now, we have nearly 23,000 people that have participated so far in this campaign, and that’s just this year alone.

JAIME: Myra, do you have to be an employee-based salon in order to participate in these programs?

MYRA: No, not at all. You know, this really will have a trickle across effect if this credit is in place because it could be used to hire more employees. It could be used for benefits such as health care benefits. It could be used to reinvest in the salon itself, maybe some new products, new training, new equipment. So overall this credit benefits everyone at every level in the beauty industry, by allowing these employers to have their reimbursement back on these FICA taxes paid on tips, but anyone can participate in these campaigns. It’s super simple to do. You put your information in. The system will recognize your address and send your information, your letter of support, to your member of Congress on both the House and Senate side. The letter is completely editable. So if you want to share how this would personally impact you, you can write in there, explain what this impact would have on you. If you’re your salon owner, you could actually break down the numbers and show what the amount of money would be that you could get back and how that would help you survive, especially as we’re recovering from the COVID pandemic in regards to business operations. So anyone across the board, it’s not limited to a certain state like some of our campaigns are. Because this is a federal bill, it doesn’t matter what state you’re in. Everyone can participate.

ASHLEY: Switching gears slightly, because that is excellent, and I can’t wait to hear more about what’s happening with that, but what have you and the PBA at large learned from the COVID situation as far as just the awareness level of your work and what you do on behalf of the industry, and really what is the PBA’s plan to kind of pivot moving forward to keep pros informed about its work and updated on the status of things like this?

MYRA: Thank you. That’s a great question. And I think that we’ve had a growing opportunity to share our work, and I hope that we’ve met that challenge, and are becoming better about sharing more what we’re doing here at PBA. I guess I first want to step back and just explain that, PBA as a national association, it’s existed for well over a hundred years. It’s gone through several name changes and mergers. We do represent manufacturers, distributors, business owners, and the licensed beauty professional. We’re supportive of all avenues to achieve your license and how you choose to work. What we do support is compliance, and education, and information. We have worked very hard over the past several years to establish relationships at both the state and federal level, not just with elected officials, but also with officials within agencies that have oversight or somehow touch the beauty industry. I want to emphasize that there are only two of us in this association that work in government affairs. We do work in government affairs full time. This is what we do all day, every day. However, there’s two of us for all 50 states and federal. So sometimes, I will be honest and share with you, there is a lag of information sharing. I am certainly trying to get better about saying what we’ve worked on and how we did it. There’s obviously room for improvement and our marketing team is helping to facilitate a way for my teammate Katie Rapoza and I to share more of our operations, I guess, more of behind the scenes of what we do. But you know, we’re so busy actually working that sometimes we miss that opportunity. But in direct response to how this relates with COVID, you know, back in April, let’s say March, actually we ran a 50 state campaign of outreach to all governors across the United States to share guidelines that were vetted, safety protocol suggestions, and to establish who in their state was going to oversee the reopening process. Most states have a COVID committee or a COVID team in place that is comprised of different people within state agencies, within typically someone from the governor’s office, someone that has an economic and business background, that develop this team. For example, in California, it was a team of four to five people that we came to know and develop a very positive, professional working relationship. We wanted to ensure that we are respectful of each state’s process as they were tackling something that’s completely new for all of us, right? To try to find out how they balance safety, the COVID pandemic, people’s lives with the economy. I certainly wouldn’t want to be in that position. That is a tough position to be in. Basically, in the end, no one was going to be happy. So rather than adding to their stress or being antagonistic, we wanted to serve as a resource, a place where they could go to retrieve information to help them through the reopening process, to serve as a guide, a professional representative of the industry to provide legitimacy and comfort to them to know that our professionals are licensed. They have a heightened awareness of safety protocols. And that they are taking steps very seriously to reopen safely, and that they can work and reopen safely. So what we have learned is that that approach worked for us. That approach allowed us in multiple states across the US to participate in conversations, obviously everything’s virtual, in Zoom calls, to review their guidelines, for them to review our guidelines, to bring in specific members of the professional beauty industry, at times, to participate in calls, to be able to share personal stories, a breakdown of numbers, examples of changes made in establishments, examples of staff wearing PPE, setting up safety sanitation stations, showing all of this in action and real time of what’s going on, to help serve as a resource. Because we have to remember this is a team of people in multiple states. They are not part of the beauty industry. They don’t know exactly how this works so providing these examples, and serving as a resource, and letting them in to these conversations on our side is very helpful to them. It’s helpful in their conclusion of how they can proceed, and move forward with confidence in setting out that guidance. Again, nothing’s going to be perfect. I know not everyone’s going to be happy, but you have to find a way to work together with state agencies and with the state government so that you are part of those discussions. That’s immensely important and that will carry through now. The relationships that we’ve developed over the past few months are permanent. These are relationships and positive conversations that will allow us to continue to be included and have these discussions. And they’re immensely important. This is directly comparable, the relationship building, when we had a lot of deregulation bills pop up over the past couple of years in different states, not specifically on the West coast, but many on the East coast, and in some of our Southern and Midwestern States that we’re looking at their disdain, basically, their strong opposition to occupational licensing across the board. Not specific to the beauty industry, they just didn’t like occupational licensing across the board. They felt it was a lot of red tape, a lot of hoops to jump through, inconsistent. So we had to do a lot of education and relationship building on that level as well. PBA also invests in lobbying firms. We invest in our own membership and political organizations, such as the Public Affairs Council. We attend many conferences where we purchase time to explain the proponent view of the cosmetology license, all the licenses that fall under cosmetology and the barbering umbrella, to explain why this is important and to provide an educational snapshot of the beauty industry, not just about the safety, but about the economic impact that the beauty industry has at the state level. And being able to break that down, the economic impact, the demographic impact, who is the beauty industry, who are being employed. This is a long-term legitimate career choice that can lead you on so many different paths for success. So that relationship building, especially as a result of the COVID pandemic, allows us that voice, that participation level, to be able to do that from now moving forward.

JAIME: As the PBA builds relationships with states, how much influence do federal agencies and other states have on the decision making process in any given state?

MYRA: Well, we do like to keep the federal level in the loop. So if, for example, let’s take the COVID pandemic and the shutdowns. We also in the midst of our work at the state level will alert the congressional delegation for that state. Did you know this is what’s going on? Because they have a whole other level of issues to work on, and to read, and to look at. I used to work for both the state legislature in Texas and the state assembly in California years ago. And I also worked at the federal level in Congress for a state senator and a congresswoman as well. So you can see the amount of work and just flat out reading is staggering, the length of these bills. It’s impossible to keep up with everything that’s going on. So we did take time over the past few months when we were learning about COVID, the impact, the business impact that it was having on the professional beauty industry, to also alert the congressional delegation of what was going on in their home state. The impact there is to tie this back to the next COVID relief package that we just spoke about a few minutes ago is a reminder. Don’t forget about these businesses, these businesses that cannot be outsourced, these businesses that have a genuine financial economic impact to the state. Don’t forget about them when you’re looking to rework, and rewrite, and figure out who you’re going to include in the next COVID relief package at the federal level. At the state level, with agencies as well, we need these partnerships with agencies. One, we need to understand what agency covers what. That gets complicated sometimes. A lot of times, I go straight to one agency thinking, oh yeah, the title of this person and what this agency does, that makes sense. This must cover that, to find out, oh no, it’s not even covered by that group. And, that’s beneficial as well. But so to introduce ourselves and to have them to stop and listen to them, what do you do? How do you cover these topics? What are you looking at? Is there a certain metrics? What type of information do you need for us to be helpful and develop a partnership to work together in the future? So I think depending on what the legislation is or what the topic is, it will vary who has an impact, but it’s never a bad idea to keep everyone in the loop.

JAIME: Myra, could you give us an example of some of the agencies at the federal level that you have connected with?

MYRA: Yes, absolutely. We had a chance to do a really interesting webinar earlier this year as the COVID pandemic hit, and businesses started to shut down when we were looking at guidance. Our hope with the 50-state outreach campaign was that the guidance would hopefully mirror each other, but the states did look at their own state laws and what they already had in codes so that explains why it differs from state to state in regards to who’s open, and how they’re open, at what capacity. Is it six feet apart? What type of PPE is required? What services are allowed? It differs so there’s no blanket response to questions when we get calls about what can I do in this state, or is this open? And, you know sometimes it differs all the way down to the county or city level. But we were able to work with NIOSH and the CDC, and develop great contacts during this process of working on a webinar to go through questions, one just starting with COVID concerns, breaking down COVID from the very beginning, then walking through some of the questions people had. At one point, there was a question about blow-drying. Another point on partitions, should it be glass? Should it be plastic? What sticks to glass or plastic partitions? And learning from the CDC and NIOSH’s perspective on what would work and what they felt was best in a salon establishment environment. So those are some excellent resources to have, excellent people to meet, to go back to, and in fact, we have gone back to them most recently as this morning, actually, an email correspondence about data, looking to see how is contact tracing going amongst the states? Who is collecting that data? Is it being analyzed at a federal level? What examples would pertain directly to the beauty industry itself? All information that we’d like to know, but when you start to have these agency contacts at different levels, this allows you a little bit of a glimpse into what they do every day and allows you to be introduced to other people which increases our relationship building across the board. So it’s always a positive impact.

JAIME: What’s the PBA doing to encourage our industry to participate in the elections?

MYRA: We have partnered with Rock the Vote in the past, which has been really fun. And we always participate in voting campaigns where we encourage businesses to send out information. We have links on our website where people can register to vote. I mean obviously everyone is talking about this upcoming election which is in, oh, gosh, maybe 60 days by now, maybe a little less. This is going to be big changes. And I don’t just mean with the presidential portion, but like you mentioned before, at the congressional and state level. This is going to have changes across the board. And I’m super excited about this upcoming election. I’m excited about every election. That’s part of, part of just being a, I guess a government affairs nerd, always having a fascination with elections and the voting process. I mean, I, as a kid, I used to stand outside of games and help register people to vote. And I wasn’t even old enough to vote yet. I mean I’ve always volunteered on campaigns. That’s how I landed my first job in Texas, which is volunteering on campaigns. And the weekend after I graduated with my undergraduate degree, just went straight into working for elected officials. The same thing when I was in graduate school. That’s what led me to my first job in Congress. So it’s always been a fascination and it’s just exciting. We have such an open ability to empower one another and to be excited about exercising our right to vote. That is an amazing, awesome, wonderful thing. And even with my own kids, we watched the convention on TV together. My daughter stood up and put her hand over her heart, when they were singing the national anthem. And she talks to me about this. She’s only six. So, you know, it’s just a, just being able to participate in, sit there, and watch on an election night. I know a lot of people are anxious about it. It’s a big deal and you know, it may be for some people on a moral, ethical side and on others to help with their business. If their business has been suffering or thriving, either way, however it’s been working out for business owners, how that will impact if you’re doing business overseas, how that will turn out. So the election is a huge, big deal. And I hope that everybody out there is going to be taking time for it.

ASHLEY: What are some of the benefits of membership with the PBA, as far as the advocacy and governmental relations aspects of it, and do you need to be a member to access some of those resources and information?

MYRA: You know we’d love for everyone to be a member, obviously, so it would be great if you could join because when we do talk about numbers and our strength, and we look at paying membership to do so, because we always want to be transparent and representing ourselves in an honest way. But we have something for everyone at PBA. We really do. If what you’re looking for is education, networking, events, information, someone to call and actually access a live person to ask your question, we have that. From the advocacy perspective, we have an advocacy program. We have someone that literally, Katie will literally sit with you on the phone, give you visuals, and hold your hand, and walk with you until you feel comfortable about your level of advocacy participation. You have a question about what’s going on or what we’re doing? Yes, it is as simple as calling me or emailing me and asking the question. We do respond. So we’re very involved. We are not nine to five. A lot of us are constantly working. We’ll text each other at night when we see the same thing. Hey, did you notice that? Oh gosh, we should let our members know about that, or this would be something great to do with our membership. Everyone here is truly invested. This is not a nine to five job for us. This is our career as well. And one thing I’ve learned through COVID is listening to the stories, seeing the visuals, connecting and being able to meet so many of our members that I’ve never had a chance to meet before and learn about them, learn about their families. I soak all that in as well. It changes my voice for them. It changes our perspective. Oh, okay, I learned this today from our membership in this state, or I talked to two people today, or I was able to participate in this event and look at all the things I learned that I had no idea would impact a business, and now I know this, and now I can use this as an example. And now I’m going to go back to that person that I just met that spent their time telling me their story and utilize them as a resource. So it’s very intertwined, our association. Again, not everybody’s always happy. Believe me, some days I get more of the negative comments that I like to hear, and I think part of that is because not everyone understands what PBA can do. But if you take the time to engage with PBA, to actually use your membership, to sign up for the newsletters, sign up for the alerts. Pick up the phone and call us if there’s something you think we’ve missed or not doing. We’d also love to hear when you think we’ve done a great job. Don’t be shy to share that too. It’s very engaging. You really get what you put in, not just with PBA, but you know, that’s across the board with any membership organization that you’re going to join. You get what you put in. If you think something’s missing, call and ask someone. You would be surprised how many resources we have, but people just don’t know it yet. We try our best to push out as much information as possible. There is so much that our small team does that it would be impossible to share every bit and piece of information, but we’re doing our best, and we do work hard, and we work a lot. We work a lot. For a small team to produce as much as we do. We are working during the day at night and on weekends. And we’re doing this because we love it. I love my job. I love when I learn new things each week. I love being able to speak on behalf of members that will allow me to do so. I love explaining why a policy would work or why it wouldn’t work, and, and having a seat at the table. I love being able to participate in that type of representation on a behalf of the industry that I genuinely care about, and I see that in our teammates here, PBA. They care. They will go out of their way to help our membership, and that matters.

JAIME: What do you want to tell every beauty pro right now and what small things should they do in the next week to make a difference?

MYRA: Well, number one, register to vote because that’s right around the corner. So we don’t want to miss the deadline to register to vote. Or if you’re interested in receiving a mail-in ballot, you know if that’s the route you want to go. Register to vote. It’s free. You can do it online. It only takes a few minutes and request a mail-in ballot, if that’s the route you want to go. Get to know who your elected officials are and what they do. Take a minute to read their bio and then take the time to introduce yourself. Give them a verbal bio about you. Become a legitimate resource for people that make decisions on your behalf. It’s just like talking to a friend, telling them about your business, telling them why you made that career choice, and what you love about it. Elected officials, the people that work at agencies are people, normal, regular people. So engage with them with respect and understanding. Feel comfortable enough to share where you disagree. Perhaps, maybe you have a solution in mind. Share that, too. Sometimes that’s how legislation and policies are born, but serve as that resource. Don’t be afraid to engage. If you’re confused about anything or have a question, call us, email us, reach out to us. Utilize us as your association home for the industry. But, the one main thing I would say is take a step in the direction to be involved, whatever your comfort level is. It will make a difference. If today it’s registering to vote, that’s awesome. Go out and do that. If tomorrow, it’s getting to know who your elected officials are, do that, too. If it’s sending an email, just try it. If it’s engaging with PBA or wanting to know more about what I do, or have a question for me, reach out. I’m human and a person too. So I’d love to meet you, and to talk to you, and learn from you too. But take steps to create solutions in a positive uplifting way that truly represents the beauty industry, how you want people to see it. I think that’s most important.

ASHLEY: Well, I for one really appreciate your efforts and you and Katie and everybody at the PBA, but especially, the fact that you’ve taken this time to again help us really reset and understand what it is the PBA does for us, whether we’re members or just members of the industry, and what we can be doing to take some action and feel like we’re contributing towards this change instead of just being kind of pawns in a larger game. So thank you so much again for your time. I know you’re very busy, but we really do appreciate it.

MYRA: Well, thank you for including me. I mean, never too busy to talk to you two lovely ladies.   I appreciate your leadership and advocacy within the industry. And that’s what we all have to do for each other is just take a moment to reset, to breathe, and be appreciative of one another, everyone’s contribution. Even if it doesn’t look like the way you would contribute, but to appreciate the fact that we all stopped and we’re all trying to work towards a common goal, to recognize that and to appreciate that in one another. We really have room for more unification and I’d love to see that.

JAIME: Thank you, Myra. We’d love to see that as well.

MYRA: Thank you both.

JAIME: Please subscribe, rate, and review Outgrowth on your favorite podcast platform. It helps us reach more listeners like you.

ASHLEY: We’ve got a review coming into us from say it don’t spray it, which is hilarious, and it reads: All the yes, five stars. I listened to the state board episode first and now have been bingeing it from the beginning. A lot of helpful info. Thank you so much. I’ve been copying the link and pasting it everywhere. I see people starting to lose their bleep. Thanks ladies.

JAIME: If you’re enjoying Outgrowth, please head to Apple podcasts and leave us a review. We may read your review on the next podcast.

ASHLEY: And as always, you can follow us and comment on recent episodes on Instagram at @outgrowthpodcast. Until next week.

JAIME: Be smart.

ASHLEY: Be safe.


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